Atheists And Leftists: A Comparative Look At Their Methods Of Debate

I have just watched a short debate on TV, which was presented in an interview format. The short subject was an atheist holiday display in Philadelphia.

For the first time a regional atheist group will display a holiday tree on the Chester County Courthouse lawn during the winter holidays, potentially setting a seasonal model for other communities.

County commissioners have allowed groups to display a Christmas tree and menorah on the lawn. But last year, The Freethought Society of Greater Philadelphia, an atheist group, asked the commissioners to either let any group set up a seasonal holiday display or ban the displays entirely.

We can debate the validity of an atheist group choosing Christmas as a time to set up a display, but that's not the larger point I want to make here in this particular post. That, I believe, is a topic that would best be covered on my theology blog. And frankly, I do not care to debate it right now.

The TV debate included a Catholic priest and the director of the Freethought Society of Philadelphia, Margaret Downey. Ms. Downey was allowed to answer questions uninterrupted by anyone, to include the priest. Yet, when the questions turned to the cleric, Ms. Downey saw fit to continually interrupt him in his chance to say his piece.

This is not the only debate I have noticed this kind of rude behavior.

When engaging a leftist or watching a debate that has a leftist participating, many times he/she will refuse to allow those with opinions and views different than theirs, the opportunity to articulate them, without a myriad of interruptions. Mind you I am not calling atheists, leftists here. I am only pointing out an observation I have noticed, in that there is often a similarity of debating style.

Atheists. many times, will attempt to evangelize and proselytize every bit as much as many of the evangelical Christians they claim to despise so much. When discussing politics with a leftist, often they will claim their free speech is in danger in this country. Yet when participating in a debate with someone that disagrees with them, they will often try to filibuster the conversation and suppress the person's (with the opposing view) right to state their position.

Other things I have noted are both groups' desire to avoid answering pointed questions. I cannot count how many times I have watched (or attempted to watch) an intelligent debate between two people with one from one of these groups and another that disagrees with their view, and the leftist or atheist will not answer the question. Instead, they will reroute the conversation to a completely different topic, or take it back to the weak and unsupported claim they are trying to make, offering little or no support for how they arrived at such a conclusion.

Don't get me wrong here. There are Christians and right wingers that do the same thing. But, in my experience, it happens far more with the so called freethinkers and leftist politicos. Are they so insecure in their beliefs that they cannot allow someone that disagrees with them the chance to present an alternative to their way of thinking?

Many atheists are good people that have (for whatever reason) chosen to not believe in God or other religions' higher powers. Many do not denigrate others for their beliefs in those powers, but merely quietly go along and believe what they want, which is their right. In short, they live and let live.

Others feel the need to insult and rail against those that choose to believe in God or other higher powers, often times trying to prove that the believers' gods do not exist. They use whatever forum they can to degrade those that have chosen to believe in something, different from their own belief system. This is the same thing they accuse of evangelical Christians of doing.

The same can be said of political leftists. Instead of intelligently presenting an issue-based argument on a given topic, they often will choose to engage in rude behavior that often times include nasty and despicable ad hominem attacks on those they do not agree with. Instead of boosting their arguments with evidence and support, they spend such an inordinate amount of time trying to tear down the other person's arguments.

Personally, I do not care what anyone chooses to believe or disbelieve. I see it as their God-given right to accept or reject, whatever they want. But, I do not believe they do themselves much of a service, when they engage in the kind of behaviors I have described here in this post. It certainly won't win a lot of support from those that sit on the fence (and those are the ones they need to win support from, not the ones that already have their minds made up).

I certainly do not see it as their right to engage in nastiness and rude behavior, just to advance their arguments. If a person cannot use sound reason and judgment to persuade me to re-think my stances, nastiness and vindictive discourse will not be successful. Neither will making an ass of themselves in a public form, like Ms. Downey and many others do.

Another Blast From The Past

For 40 years, this weekend's artist has been writing songs (and singing them). A little rough at the outset of his career, he is now a household name in the music world. And he has been since the early 70s, when he took the music world by storm. From his glamour-rock days through the experimentation with new wave, one thing has always rang true: David Bowie has always stayed true to the spirit of rock and roll.

His first hit that put him on the map was a very unique folk tune, with a very spacey 70s edge. Here is that song (along with some great video), it's called Space Oddity:



One of the bigger selling albums Bowie put out in the 70s, was Aladdin Sane. Oddly enough, the big single from that release was a Stones song. But my favorite one from that LP was a real rock and roll song, called Panic In Detroit. Here is a 1997 live version, definitely worth a look:



As the 80s came, the mainstream rock scene was one of avant garde experimentation. Bowie was no different. This was especially true of his 83 album release, Let's Dance. The title song was a cross between disco and new wave, which sold quite well. But my favorite tune from that album was one that stayed solidly in the rock genre. I cannot tell you how much I really like this one. Here is my favorite song from that record, it's called Cat People (Putting Out Fire With Gasoline):



As much as I like these previous songs, I cannot do a Bowie tribute without posting the greatest Bowie song ever. It's a pensive song with a mellow tune that will always be a favorite of mine. I think it's one of the better songs ever written, by anyone. The title says it all, it's called Heroes:



Enjoy.

Wanted: Person With Or Without Knowledge

Some jobs are pretty open when it comes to the experience level and the knowledge base of the applicant. That's not so bad, if we are talking about sales of hardware, potato chips, or other such items. But we'd like to think that when we are getting information, the one putting out the information is a person that knows something about the information being put out.

If I am watching a segment with medical and health advice, I would hope that the person would be a doctor or some other healthcare professional related to the topic at hand. Can we imagine a grocery store cashier telling us all what treatment regimens work best to treat lymphoma? Better yet, how about a bartender teaching us about what lab values are critical in diagnosing cirrhosis of the liver?

Take CBS for example, they have placed an ad for an eco-beat reporter.

“CBS is expanding its coverage of the environment,” the ad reads. “We seek a talented reporter/host for Internet video broadcast. We are looking for smart, creative, hard working up and comers, who can bring great energy, creativity and a dash of humor to our coverage. A deep interest in the environment and sustainability issues will serve you well.”

So you would think such a job would require a science background or years of covering environmental news? Not exactly.

“You are wicked smart, funny, irreverent and hip, oozing enthusiasm and creative energy,” the ad reads. “This position requires strong people, reporting, story telling and writing skills. Managing tight deadlines should be second nature. Knowledge of the enviro beat is a big plus, but not a requirement.”

If you have any questions as to why CBS is dead last in the ratings, this may help you to understand it better. Credibility is the problem and it has been, since the big Memogate scandal.

I would think a person with a strong ecological background would be the first requirement. But when we see with Al Gore running the show in this global warming cult, we realize that isn't a pre-requisite. Al is a lawyer and politician by trade, yet ask any global warming cult member and they'll tell you, he is the premier expert in this field.

All that matters is, a person needs to be funny and irreverent to get the pre-determined message out. It doesn't matter that there is no consensus in the real scientific world, just be funny and outgoing. We'll tell you what to say.

Now go get 'em killer.

Knock 'em dead.

Recommended Reading

Jason Whitlock says some things that will more than likely get him condemned from some circles, in this reality check examination. But he says what he says, because he believes it to be true.

Sometimes, reality is a bitter pill to swallow. One certainly can choose not to swallow it and remain sick, the patient's bill of rights guarantee us all that choice in the medical world. But to remain in denial about the illness and not taking the medicine, doesn't make the illness go away.

French Delegation Honors American War Heroes

A French delegation was in Indianapolis honoring some brave men that fought on French soil. PYY both lauds the gesture, itself, and the words that were said:

To the French, the veterans are heroes who helped free France from the Germans, said Jean-Baptiste de Boissiere, the consul general of the French consulate in Chicago, who presented the medals. “You saved us and we will not forget,” he said.

Beautifully said, Monsieur.

And before Flocon beats me to it, I want to point some historical background out from this short article.

Here's the remote history:

Napoleon Bonaparte established the Legion of Honour in 1802 as the highest award given by the French Republic for outstanding service to France.

Now, the more recent history:

In 2004, French President Jacques Chirac opened the door for veterans to apply for the honor in recognition of the 60th anniversary of the Invasion of Normandy.

I have been very hard on M. Chirac, in many of my postings, over the last three years here. But do not think that this good deed will go unnoticed and unthanked.

In my view, a big "merci beaucoup" is in order here. It first goes to M. Chirac for making this possible. Not only that, I think another goes to the French government and the French people, as well. I know these men must have felt good to receive this award, in the twilight of their lives. Suffice it to say, you have made some old guys smile inside.

Vive le France.

News In Brief (And The Usual Opinionated Commentary)

Another Government Schools Outrage Moment

Take a look at the linked story and see why I have a problem with most government schools. The old saying goes "a little child shall lead them", but what if an adult misleads a child?


U.S. Reduces Emissions In 2006

According to the article, they are down. Forecast for today in Indianapolis is sunny with a high of 39 and a low of 26. Yep, it must be working already. Keep it up folks, maybe Al will go away now.


CNN Instigating Chavez Assassination?

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Wednesday CNN may have been instigating his murder when the U.S. TV network showed a photograph of him with a label underneath that read "Who killed him?"

The caption appeared to be a production mistake -- confusing a Chavez news item with one on the death of a football star. The anchor said "take the image down" when he realized.

To my good friend Flocon: This is paranoid. It meets the psychiatric definition. ;)


Humanity At Its Worst

Wait until you read this one. You may not want to. It defies all reason as to how someone could do this.


Massachusetts Proposal Seeks To Outlaw Spanking

There is a reason they are called moonbats. As I have said several times before, the person that coined that term should be rewarded with royalties. This one will not pass. But that doesn't mean there will not come a day, when it will. If not in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, it'll pass somewhere. You can bank on it.


A Few Good People

A few good words by Victor Davis Hanson.

An Interesting Trans-Atlantic Discussion

It's going on over at Social Sense, here.

Be sure to read the comments, you'll recognize a PYY regular named Flocon (of Shall We Talk?), as one of the participants.

Phooey On The Polls

Newsbusters has a piece about Hillary's pollster complaining about unfavorable polls.

Presaging the kind of press control a President Hillary Clinton might try to impose, a member of her inner circle scolded Joe Scarborough today for having the audacity to mention a poll with results unfavorable to Clinton.

Here is the poll, Mark Penn is having trouble accepting.

Naturally, it isn't what he wants to hear so he denigrates the polling process used by Zogby and makes it the subject of the argument. Never mind that if the poll had been favorable to Sen. Clinton, this whole conversation would have never occurred.

Here is Zogby's response to Mr. Penn's criticism.

The bottom line here, is this:

Hillary's campaign is bleeding. It hasn't bled out yet, but it is actively bleeding and will do so, if they do not get a handle on it now. She is losing ground in Iowa, where many people (close to her) advised her to write off. She is losing ground nationally, maybe not as fast as Iowa, but support is beginning to erode.

I think the more she talks, the more people are not connecting with her. She comes across as polished, rehearsed, and seems to want to take on all of the softball interviews and reject those that want to ask the tough questions that need to be asked. Look at how Russert was demonized by her campaign for asking tough questions and how her campaign effectively brow beat Blitzer into easing up by making this a gender issue.

This is giving people the impression, she is weak. Not because she is a woman, but because Hillary the person is weak. Her talking out of both sides of her mouth is catching up to her.

At the same time, Obama is coming across as more sincere, despite his weaknesses in his ideology. He answers the questions posed to him with far less tap dancing. I may disagree with the vast majority of his answers and will not support him based on that alone, but make no mistake, people are connecting with him better. He firmly believes the wrong answers he gives are right and will not try to BS his way out of them, at least not to the degree that Sen. Clinton does.

I sense more desperation from the Clinton campaign these days. It's in her voice, her facial expressions, her body language, and now it's coming from her surrogate attack dogs like Mark Penn. Is this ropa-dopa, Ali-style? I doubt it. But, if it is, now is the time to punch back. She is absorbing too many blows right now and is swinging into the air, by sending people like Penn out to discredit a widely respected polling operation like Zogby.

Iran Proposes Alternative To Annapolis

In a move that is not at all surprising, the Iranian government has proposed an alternate meeting.

Iran said on Tuesday that it had invited Palestinian militant factions to a meeting in Tehran aimed at countering a US-hosted Middle East peace conference seeking to kickstart the peace process.

From this opening statement in this very short article, most intelligent people can effectively surmise that the meeting Iran is proposing will not have peace as a long-term objective.

"These groups are planning to come to Tehran within the next week or two and they are all the Palestinian groups that are struggling for the freedom of their land," government spokesman Gholam Hossein Elham told reporters.

Translation: These groups are planning to come to Tehran within the next week or two and they are all the Palestinian groups that are struggling to destroy Israel.

In other words:

The strip of land in question (which was once barren and fruitless before 1948) belongs to the Palestinian people and there is no process or deal that is acceptable, short of all Jews vacating it permanently, so that the Palestinian militant groups can turn it back into a barren and fruitless war zone, once again.

Iran is one of the most vocal backers of Palestinian militant groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and pledged millions of dollars in 2006 to the then Hamas government crippled by a Western aid cut.

The Islamic republic does not recognise Israel and its President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has provoked outrage by calling for the Jewish state to be wiped off the map.

As much as I would like to applaud the efforts of the Annapolis conference, I cannot get very optimistic. As long as the current government in Iran is in power, there will be no peace in the Middle East. Pledging millions of dollars in 2006 is nothing new. Ask them about the billions that have been pumped into Hezbollah and others, since the regime was installed in 1979.

As long as oil is a necessary commodity throughout the world, these people will have funding for terror operations. As long as states such as Iran and Saudi Arabia use their huge oil revenues to finance this hatred, it will not go away anytime soon.

Ask LA

Hi. I am LA Sunsett. Many know me as, LA.

Once upon a time, there was a blogger named Nickie Goomba, who sadly passed away awhile back. He had an occasional segment called Ask Maria (his wife), where she would give advice to readers that needed help solving some difficult problems they faced.

Nickie is gone, the blog is gone, and to the best of my knowledge, Maria is not helping people anymore. So, to fill the terrible void, I am stepping up to the plate, offering my services to people desperately need help with some of the problems they face in the world today.

Here is the very first installment of Ask LA:


Dear LA,

I am so hurt and confused and do not know what I should do. I feel so betrayed by those that I have felt close to for a long time. They say one thing to my face and when my back is turned, they stick a knife in it. They tell me how they support me in my daily struggles, yet when my back is turned, they openly subvert my causes by befriending those that are my enemies.

Just the other day my friend Syria led me to believe they thought a meeting in Annapolis was not going to benefit me and wanted no part of it. But, again, when my back is turned and least expected it, I saw their delegation on the news disembarking from an airplane at Andrews AFB. The news people said that they had not been expected to attend, but surprised everyone by showing up anyway.

Please help me, LA. I am at my wit's end. What should I do?

Sincerely,

Hamas



Dear Hamas,

It's tough when friends do this to you and believe me, I know how you must be hurting over this. But you must understand that this is not your fault. You are the victim and you need to act like it.

The first thing you must do is, lob a few rockets into Israel and try to kill some innocent people. Everyone knows that Israel and the imperialist United States are purposely trying to alienate your friend Syria from you.

When that is done, you might want to execute a few people from the Fatah organization, as they are working against you too. They are conspiring with Israel and the U.S. to hurt you. Issuing some strongly worded threats might not hurt, either.

But whatever you do, do not look inward towards yourself to find the answers. Like I said, none of this is your fault. You have the perfect right to blame all of your hardships on Israel and the U.S., as they are infidels and rats. You have the right to do whatever makes you happy and damn those that have taken issue with your feelings, your suicide bombings, and your deliberate killings of innocent people (to include children).

This within itself, will not be enough to complete the healing process. But it is a good start. Seek professional help as soon as you can, I recommend a good Iranian therapist.


Best of luck,

LA