Saturday, March 10, 2007

A Video You Have To See

If you want to see one solid reason why I think the Dems stand a good chance of losing this election, take a look at this video and see what you think.

Here we have a deliberate political hit job on a longtime member of Congress David Obey (D-WI), who voted against the war and is actively working on a bill that will in effect "de-authorize" the war. (Which I am not in support of at this time, but at least I have to give credit to its authors for creativity.)

I am sure the far-left hit job artists think this was cute and clever. But here they demonstrate one more time, they do not understand how the system works, as is evidenced by the unknown man in the video. This guy doesn't even understand that it's the Senate that filibusters, not the House. Rep. Obey tries to calmly explain what they are trying to do and why, yet both of these hacks are persistent in badgering the Congressman to the point of utter frustration.

I am also very skeptical as to whether the woman is even the mother of a Marine. Anyone can say they are anything, and until what they say can be verified, it's pretty much as they say. With the woman starting the conversation off, the man later joining in, and the camera person that just happens to be there as the whole thing takes place, how can anyone deny this is a hit?

It goes to show that the hard left is not interested in results, unless they are the exact results they want. There is no room for compromise with this group. They aren't interested. And, it's why I do believe they stand a good chance of dividing the Democratic Party.

For more on this, check out the write-up this was given in The Hill.

ADDENDUM:

Here is another video that demonstrates the absurdity of the hard left. I don't know who the hell the questioner is, but the public schools must have failed him. He doesn't know a damned thing about civics. Rep. Obey is on their side, but they are so indoctrinated by the political cults of our day, they are blind to what he tries to tell them. They do not listen, they are only interested in speaking.

They are the political versions of Moonies, Hare Krishnas, etc. They repeat the same things over and over. They do not think, speak, or act with the least bit of rationality. Check it out.

36 comments:

Mary Ellen said...

You think this is solid evidence that the Dems are going to lose this electtion because of this? Too funny!

First of all, it's obvious that the guy working the camera had it hidden by the low level at which it's being held. That, is against the law, to bring a camera in there and secretly video tape. As a matter of fact, I think that is against one of the Homeland Security Acts.

Also, I could barely hear anything that was being said and didn't even hear the word "liberal". If this was such a big deal, it would be all over the "liberal" blogs and they would be up in arms and screaming at Obey. But, guess what? Not happening. Sorry, LA, I know you are working so hard to find some cracks in the Democratic party, but they aren't there. MoveOn didn't care about this video, nor did any of the other "liberal" blogs.

I would say that you have to worry about the cracks in your own Republican party, you know, the one that has been a cheerleader for Bush and are suddenly jumping ship like a bunch of rats.

Keep trying, LA, maybe you'll find something on Faux News or Rush Limbaugh that will make you feel better. :-D

LASunsett said...

ME,

//ou think this is solid evidence that the Dems are going to lose this electtion because of this?//

Here's what I said:

If you want to see one solid reason why I think the Dems stand a good chance of losing this election, take a look at this video and see what you think.

Nice try, though.

//First of all, it's obvious that the guy working the camera had it hidden by the low level at which it's being held. That, is against the law, to bring a camera in there and secretly video tape. As a matter of fact, I think that is against one of the Homeland Security Acts.//

It wasn't FOX News that did this, it was the far left fringe that did this, don't blame them for this.

//Also, I could barely hear anything that was being said and didn't even hear the word "liberal". //

Listen again. I can't hear worth a damn, but I heard it very plainly. It's there, so are the idiotic statements by the leftists.

//I would say that you have to worry about the cracks in your own Republican party//

Once again for the 3000th time, I am not a Republican. I am not that black and white, I see the gray areas. How can you surmise that whenever I criticize a Democrat, it makes me a GOP?

Face it ME, this one is a gem.

Mary Ellen said...

It wasn't FOX News that did this, it was the far left fringe that did this, don't blame them for this.

I never said it was Fox News. Read my response again. I said this:


First of all, it's obvious that the guy working the camera had it hidden by the low level at which it's being held. That, is against the law, to bring a camera in there and secretly video tape. As a matter of fact, I think that is against one of the Homeland Security Acts.


Nice try, though.

As far as being able to hear the video, if I use headphones, it might be more audible. I'm working with a Dell laptop, not very good speakers on this thing.

Once again for the 3000th time, I am not a Republican. I am not that black and white, I see the gray areas. How can you surmise that whenever I criticize a Democrat, it makes me a GOP?

What gray areas? :-D You're about as Independent as I am a Centrist. Just because I say nice things about Gerald Ford or make statements about respecting our military, doesn't make me any less a liberal Democrat. You may be an Independent on your voter registration, but your views are very right wing, IMO. ;-)

All_I_Can_Stands said...

Thanks LA. The utter ignorance of those conducting the questions have induced a migraine.

I think if Obey were the lone vote for what they want and the rest of congress supported the war (I speak as a fool) the questions would still be the same. They would still be looking for that magic wand.

Also, the stupidity of conducting a hit on somebody that is on your side is mind-boggling.

LA, you are right that this piece does show signs that the Dems will be in trouble next election. It shows there are two camps in the Dem supporters: the camp that are so radical like those who created these videos that they cannot think rationally; and the camp that wrings their hands every day wondering what they can do to mitigate the damage caused by the other camp. That is hard, because the first camp has a lot of money behind it.

I knew it was going to be fun when the Dems took over. I didn't know just how fun. And it is going to get better.

Mary Ellen said...

AICS


LA, you are right that this piece does show signs that the Dems will be in trouble next election. It shows there are two camps in the Dem supporters: the camp that are so radical like those who created these videos that they cannot think rationally; and the camp that wrings their hands every day wondering what they can do to mitigate the damage caused by the other camp. That is hard, because the first camp has a lot of money behind it.

The only ones I see wringing their hands are you guys. It's kind of comical. Here, you guys have a list of candidates who are the biggest bunch of incompetent boobs, which your own party is complaining about and you say WE are in trouble? LOL! To be honest, this stuff isn't even being talked about, let alone "wringing our hands" with worry.

Yeah...we're really in trouble with that group of candidates you guys have up. ROTFLMAO!

Oh...and if you think the Republicans don't have a rift in their party, what about the Republicans who are voting with the Dems? What about Chuck Hagel who has been VERY vocal about the incompetency of your President? How about the Republicans who were standing on the other side of the road in Texas when there were demonstrations over the war...with misspelled signs? The mouth breather crowd...you know who I'm talking about, right? But you guys have Falwell, Dobson, and Pat Robertson on your side, don't ya? LOL!!!!

Yeah....I know you're disappointed that the Democrats have already done more in the 2 months they've been in office than you guys did in 6 years. Of course, we haven't been able to diagnose any brain dead women by looking at a video, I'll give you guys that one.

Funny, waaaay too funny.

Mary Ellen said...

AICS

I also think it's funny that you think that Democrats are split...when in fact, your own Senators seem to have split personalities.

Nearly two months ago — as Congress began debate over a non-binding resolution that sought to put lawmakers on the record as to whether they supported escalation — conservatives complained that it was a “debate without any real consequence.” They derided the debate over the non-binding resolution as “a meaningless political stunt” and pure “political theater.”

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and Rep. Adam Putnam (R-FL) called on the majority to produce a substantive proposal:

BOEHNER: “Why don’t we have the real debate and have the real vote and do it now? Let’s get out of the shadow boxing. Let’s get away from the non- binding resolution. Let’s get away from the slow bleed. Let’s just have the real debate that the American people want us to have and bring it to an end.” [CNN, 2/16/07]

PUTNAM: “If you’re not cutting off the funds for the troops in the field, then you are supporting the commander in chief’s policy. This gamesmanship sends the wrong message to our troops, and it is trying to have it both ways.” [SF Chronicle, 2/7/07]

This week, House Democrats did what the conservatives had been asking for. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) announced a legislative plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq by August 2008 at the latest, tying the proposal to the authorization of funding for the war.

So how did Boehner and Putnam react to the news that Congress could now engage in a “real debate”? By shifting their attacks and blaming Congress for taking the action that they had been encouraging just weeks earlier:

BOEHNER: “The Democrats are using the critical troop funding bill to micromanage the war on terror, undermining our generals on the ground and slowly choking off resources for our troops. [Press Conference, 3/8/07]

PUTNAM: “Democrats have put forward a haphazardly created proposal that micromanages the war now in order to slowly bleed off funds for our troops later.” [Statement, 3/8/07]

Because House conservatives’ are so desperate to avoid an Iraq debate and provide cover for Bush’s Iraq policy, their hypocrisy knows no bounds.


Welcome to Senator Sybil Boehner and Senator Sybil Putnam's world, the world of the Republican party.

:-D

Mary Ellen said...

Ooops...that was Congressman Sybil Boehner and Congressman Sybil Putnam

I want to be sure that you know which hypocrites I was talking about...

LASunsett said...

AICS

//he stupidity of conducting a hit on somebody that is on your side is mind-boggling.//

It's all about motive.

There is a battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. There is the Democratic machine and the hard left. The left is wanting to wrest control from the machine and is only using this war to do it. To many on the left, it is the only source of socialization they have.

Many are middle aged people that want to re-capture their youth, by re-living the Vietnam protest era (of which they were a part of). The others are disillusioned young sheep that follows wherever the older people (going through the change of life crisis) take them.

Both the leftists and the machine want control, but leftists are working to undermine those that are working hard to achieve it in such a way as to get results, not by wasting time doing something that has no chance of doing so.

But the left doesn't want it that way. Instead they want to drive the train. They seek power for themselves and are using this to gain it, which in my opinion bastardizes all of the fine people that just hate this war for integrity reasons.

The machine realizes that while most of them oppose the war, they still have to do things within the legal and lawful processes created by the founding fathers. They cannot just pull out the magic wand and wave it, as Rep. Obey states.

By contrast, the hard left doesn't understand the process, nor do they understand how it's supposed to work. They just think they can arm twist all Dems into walking lock-step with them and they'll do it, even if it means doing something that ridiculously absurd.

I would not be surprised to see leftist candidates running against Obey and the other Dems that support the bill the Mr. Obey has authored. Look for Lamont-Lieberman contests all over the place in 08.

LASunsett said...

ME,

//I also think it's funny that you think that Democrats are split..//

If I were a Democrat, I'd be worried. You cannot explain away these things by diverting attention back on the GOP, each and every time something like this occurs.

NOTE - These are Dems doing hit jobs on other Dems here. Like you said, the GOP has it's own problems right now, but not like what is brewing here. I wouldn't find it funny in the least.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the Dems have some problems right now and all of the diversions, all of the denials, and all of the magic wand expectations are not going to solve the problems your party has.

You can change the subject back to the GOP all you want, it still doesn't negate these things, I speak of here.

Mary Ellen said...

LA

Where in the world do you get the idea that because a couple of idiots try to pull a hit job and stick it on YouTube that this is signs of a huge split in the Democratic party? Yeah...there are plenty of Democrats who are trying to figure out the best way to get the mess in Iraq cleaned up, the mess that the Republican party and Bush put us in, but they are hardly turning on each other.

I was just pointing out to you that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If this video was such a big deal, it would be all over the liberal blogs. It's not, I looked. Republicans are in a lot worse shape than they have been in, in years! I know you WANT to believe there is trouble, but there isn't. Democrats are going to vote in force during the next Presidential election. They aren't going to split from the party. Whereas the Republicans are split between the old Republican party, the one's that followed Reagan, and the neo-con evangelist crowd that follows Bush (25-30%). The Republican party is losing the womens vote, the black vote that they had, and the young vote (who don't believe in this war). I'm even seeing some very strong stirrings against the Republican party in my very, very conservative Catholic parish. For the very first time, they actually had people on the front steps handing out flyers decrying the mess that the Republican party got us into.

You want to talk about numbers? Talk about the ones from 2006 election. I talked to many Republicans and Independents while calling for Move.On.org. They aren't happy...they are PISSED! It's not just the war, it's a million other issues, health care especially.

So, keep watching that video...no one else is.

LASunsett said...

ME

//You want to talk about numbers? Talk about the ones from 2006 election.//

You didn't win a mandate, you won a chance. That's what Bill Clinton said the other day. I agree with him.

You can rest on your laurels if you wish, but it's going to be a big mistake to do so. These are just two videos, there are more. And no, I do not expect to see these videos or any other on liberal blogs, why would they expose their weaknesses openly?

Mary Ellen said...

You really need to come out of your neo-con world, LA.

When the Democrats win the House by the numbers that they did...it was a mandate. The fact that they actually took the majority in the Senate, albeit, a small one, when no one thought they could...speaks volumes.

I never said the Democrats can rest on their laurels. They are working hard. Unfortunately, they don't have a large enough majority in the Senate to overcome the Republican Bush cheerleaders, but if the cheerleaders continue to back Bush against the wishes of the majority of the American people, you will see their minority sink to a much lower level come 2008.

Like I said, you guys are all whining and complaining that the Democrats haven't done enough...they've been in the majority a only two short months and already they have held more hearings, brought in more discussion on Iraq and gave the American people the opportunity to actually see the corruption in this administration. If the Republicans were still in the majority, we would be "staying the course" and the MAJORITY of the American people who not have a voice in our government.

For every video you show, I can show you ten that will reveal the hypocrisy and falsehoods that the Republican party is trying to put forth.

You keep cheerleading for Bush...stick with the 25-30% who agree with him. I'll stick with the party that actually listens to the American people. I'll keep pushing forth the truth, whether you want to believe it or not.

Have to run...I have a basement that needs to be cleaned. I warned my kids to get their junk out by March 1st or it goes....they had their chance! I'm reclaiming my space!

All_I_Can_Stands said...

ME,

It never ceases to amaze me how two different people see the same thing and come away with such different perspectives. You are laughing at things that to me are obviously true. Ah well, we will see who laughs. I can't dogmatically say it is my side as they are prone to "blow it", but I think by the time 2008 comes around the Dems will be shown to be boxed into a corner of positions that will be shown to be wrong.

Oh...and if you think the Republicans don't have a rift in their party, what about the Republicans who are voting with the Dems? What about Chuck Hagel who has been VERY vocal about the incompetency of your President?

Yeah, I should have thought about that rift. You know where Chuck Hagel is on one side of the rift and the rest of the GOP on the other. I'm sweating bullets over that one.

All_I_Can_Stands said...

LA,

There is a battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party

May the hard left win! It will make our job much easier.

Look for Lamont-Lieberman contests all over the place in 08

Now that is so fun to think of it takes away my migraine.

LASunsett said...

ME,

//When the Democrats win the House by the numbers that they did...it was a mandate. //

Bill Clinton said it, I didn't. I just agree with him.

So, you disagree with Bill, do you?

Mary Ellen said...

LA

Yup...I believe it was a mandate. The votes that we got for the Democrats from long time Republicans and Independents were votes "against" Bush. I have no doubt about that. Democrats now have to show them that we are going to do what they asked us to do, get our troops out of Iraq. That is EXACTLY what the Democratic party is working on. I also think if the Republican Senate continues to try and block all progress in that area, they will lose even more seats in the 2008 election which will give us a bigger majority, something we can work with. So, keep it up guys...you're doin' a heckuvajob! :-D

AICS:

Well, I don't fault you for getting your facts wrong regarding the Democratic party...and your own party. See, when the truth isn't told, and you don't know how to search the web for anything other than Drudge and right wing news blogs, it's not easy to sort out the truth from the lies.

Here ya go...let's look at the lies that Bush told this last week about the so-called "progress" we are making in Iraq.

On Tuesday, President Bush gave a speech claiming the Iraq escalation is showing “encouraging signs” of progress. But in today’s Washington Post, a senior Bush administration official acknowledges that “right now there is no trend” showing the escalation is working.

Moreover, officials say the information Bush presented to back up his rosy claims was skewed or flat-out false. A fact check:

President Bush: “General Petraeus recently arrived in the Iraqi capital, and the plan he is executing is in its early stages. … Yet even at this early hour, there are some encouraging signs.”

FACT: “Sectarian attacks in Baghdad are down at the moment, but the deaths of Iraqi civilians and U.S. troops have increased outside the capital. … If violence is down in Baghdad, analysts said, it is likely because the Shiite militias operating there are waiting out the buildup in U.S. troops, nearly all of whom are being deployed in the capital. At the same time, Sunni insurgents have escalated their operations elsewhere.”

President Bush: “Iraq’s Council of Ministers recently agreed on legislation they will submit to their parliament on the development of Iraq’s oil resources and the sharing of revenues.”

FACT: “Though Iraqi leaders have agreed on a new framework law for oil resources, the details of how the oil revenue will be divided among competing Iraqi groups remain unresolved.”

President Bush: “The Iraqi government has completed the deployment of three additional Iraqi Army brigades to the capital. They said they were going to employ three brigades, and they did.”

FACT: “A senior U.S. military official in Baghdad said this week that two Iraqi brigades and one battalion of a third have arrived in Baghdad.”

President Bush: “Iraqi and U.S. forces have rounded up more than 700 people affiliated with Shia extremists.”

FACT: “Bush’s report…appears to have little to do with the new strategy. The number is ‘based on captures…since July 2006,’ the military official said. Bush first reported the same roundup — citing 600 captures — last fall.”

On the same day President Bush gave his speech last week, suicide bombers and gunmen attacked Shiite religious pilgrims, “killing at least 130 people in one of the deadliest days of the four-year war.”


Hmmmm.....now the information came from a senior in the Bush administration, yet...was this reported in the Drudge Report? Rush Limbaugh? Hannity? I guess not...

Don't worry AICS, you have one Independent on your side...Holy Joe Lieberman, he LOVES Bush! He just hates our troops.

LASunsett said...

ME,

I guess you got you basement cleared out.

Nice diversion thanks to the MoveOn.Org talking points. Still waiting on why you think it's okay for leftists to sabotage a longstanding Congressman who has been against the war, like you, and is trying desperately to stop it while the left is sabotaging it. That's what the post was about.

Knowing that you are a teacher by profession and knowing how it drives you insane when I make typing errors, it must drive you nuts to know that those you revere, aren't well in tune with simple high school civics.

;)

Always On Watch Two said...

LA,
If you want to see one solid reason why I think the Dems stand a good chance of losing this election, take a look at this video and see what you think.

Well, maybe. But those two citizens who couldn't follow what Obey was trying to tell them likely cast their ballots. And I'm guessing that they don't throw away their vote on a Greenie candidate.

A.C. McCloud said...

I'm starting to like the ole bastard. What does that mean?

All_I_Can_Stands said...

ME,

Interesting. Bush says one thing and an unnamed "senior administration official" says something different and that equals you know Bush lied.

Just what is the definition of a "senior administration official" anyway? I would define it as either the VP or one of the cabinet members. If a cabinet member, which? If lower down, how does he know? I mean is it the deputy secratary of the Interior?

Sorry, you're gonna have to do better than that.

LASunsett said...

AOW,

//Well, maybe. But those two citizens who couldn't follow what Obey was trying to tell them likely cast their ballots. And I'm guessing that they don't throw away their vote on a Greenie candidate.//

That's the sad part. They do not have enough of a functional knowledge of how our government works to participate in an intelligent conversation, yet they will vote for whoever the political cult they belong to, tells them to.

LASunsett said...

AC

//I'm starting to like the ole bastard. What does that mean?//

I don't agree with him, but I certainly respect him. (Unlike the two-bit snerts that are trying to upstage him.)

The problem I am noticing with leftists these days is, they do not respect anyone that disagrees with their political dogma. I respect many of the Dems, I just do not agree with their ideologies. I do not respect these kinds of tactics used by these people. I am having a hard time believing that this woman in the first video, is even a Marine Mom, at all. If that is the case, she lied to get access to the Congressman.

LASunsett said...

AICS,

Here is ME's (copied and pasted) source for her accusations: Think Progress. This is one of the political cults that are in the mold of MoveOn.Org, DU, Code Pink, et al. Not exactly a reputable source, they are all very biased and radical groups.

ME,

How many of these organizations have you on their mailing list? ;)

Mary Ellen said...

Nice diversion thanks to the MoveOn.Org talking points. Still waiting on why you think it's okay for leftists to sabotage a longstanding Congressman who has been against the war, like you, and is trying desperately to stop it while the left is sabotaging it. That's what the post was about.

When did I say it was ok for anyone to sabatoge anyone? I did say that those two do not speak for the Democratic party. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how wrong they are ,like you! :-D I don't think they speak for or are even close to being a majority of the Democratic party.

Now, just like the middle ground Conservatives,who voted in high numbers against their party in the last election, don't like Pat Robertson or Jerry Fawell speaking for them. Do you think either of those two are Constitutional scholars? :-D They can't even figure out the interpretation of the Bible that they claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Knowing that you are a teacher by profession and knowing how it drives you insane when I make typing errors, it must drive you nuts to know that those you revere, aren't well in tune with simple high school civics.

I can probably show you videos from both sides of the aisle that show politicians who don't know simple civics...let's start with George W. Bush.....

Mary Ellen said...

LA

Show me one thing on my sources that aren't true. I can show you plenty on Drudge and Fox News, where you get your news is blatantly false. When you can prove to me that what I put out is false, then do so....otherwise, I would say that my sources use facts...yours use propaganda talking points put out by the White House.

Did you bother to look at that YouTube video of the Fox News reporters who were told they had to change their fact based news story by the lawyers because it would hurt the big corporation that they were reporting on? Fox News gets their news from faxes from the White House....my news sources verify everything they write.

Mary Ellen said...

AICS

Bush doesn't lie? Here's an example...among MANY examples of Bush's lies. Just to show you, I use facts, not the fiction that you call news.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, President Bush acknowledged that as early as “September/October” 2006, he realized a major change was needed in Iraq:

WSJ: Was there a moment in the war when you said we have to make a major change in the way we’re doing things in Iraq?
GWB: Yes, there was.
WSJ: When was that?
GWB: September/October.

But even after Bush realized that a major change was needed — in the weeks just prior to the midterm elections — he continued to knowingly mislead the American public and claim U.S. was “winning” in Iraq and that the strategy was “working”:

QUESTION: Are we winning?
BUSH: Absolutely we’re winning. … We’re winning and we will win, unless we leave before the job is done. And the crucial battle, right now, is Iraq. [10/25/06]

BUSH: But I believe that the military strategy we have is going to work. That’s what I believe. [10/25/06]

QUESTION: But just to be clear: When the commanders on the ground tell the president, in the large picture, we are stepping closer to chaos, he believes that can also be a picture of winning?
SNOW: Yes. [11/1/06]

BUSH: We’ve got a lot going for us. We got a strategy that helps us achieve victory, and we got a military that is the finest military any country has ever assembled. [11/3/06]


Ummmm....how's that strategy working, AICS? The guy wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the face...which is why he refused to go under oath during the 911 hearings.

Neo-cons! You guys are really in the dark. Gppd thing LA has me to enlighten you, eh? :-D

Mary Ellen said...

LA

The only sites I have that I get regular mailings from is MoveOn.org,because I have done a lot of work during the campaigns with them, i.e. working the phone banks, etc.

I also work for the Democratic party and do a lot of mailings and foot work with my local voting district. And I'm also one of those very nice people who work at the desk of the polling place to hand out the ballots, etc.

I walk the walk, kiddo. ;-)

All_I_Can_Stands said...

ME,

Again you are going to have to do better than this. Determining if somebody is lying over the subjective term "winning"?

Do you think we were losing in September / October? The concept of winning in a game or conflict is that if things keep going as they are, by the end of the game or conflict we will have defeated the other side.

In Iraq, if you take out the nut-jobs that want us to pull-out and assume we continue until this is over: be it 5, 10, or 50 years. Do you actually think they would kill all of our men? Or is it more likely we would kill theirs?

The same nuts that went looney over the false statistic that we have killed over 650,000 Iraqis in this conflict would compare 650,000 to 3,000 and say we are losing?

So by using the term "winning", which cannot be shown to be false by any standard, to encourage both the troops and the people to stay committed to this effort is lying????

Of course the conflict has had some discouraging problems. As in any war we have seen losses and setbacks. But to say we are losing is a lie of the highest order.

Before the election we had a congress full of people who have the backbone to support continuing this. So yes, while we are willing to stick this out and we continue to kill more of them than they of us AND we keep the conflict there instead of on our soil - we are winning.

After the election Bush felt compelled to change the terminology to we are neither winning or losing. This was a verbal concession - no doubt about it. The fact is using the word "winning" was too simple to use here and so he backed away from it.

Hardly lying.

LASunsett said...

ME,

//I walk the walk, kiddo. //

I do not think anyone that knows you would be able to say that you are not sincere in what you believe. I just don't believe as you do, in most areas that involve politics. To put it straight, I believe you believe it, but I don't believe it.

If that makes me a right winger in your view, so be it. But, there are many on the right that would say that I am not a right winger, because I do not agree with everything they deem to be true, either.

Mary Ellen said...

LA and AICS

There is nothing wrong with having philosophical differences in politics. What I don't understand is how the two of you can ignore facts. I remember one time discussing on this blog, things that were coming from the 911 Commission. I was quoting texts of people who spoke under oath, and you still didn't believe it.

Just like in the case of AICS today, because the facts (quotes that are dated) are not what he wants to believe, he refuses to believe it because the information didn't come from Fox News or Drudge.

Also, this whole bit about winning a war or not winning a war...AICS, even our own General Petraus (sp?) said there will be no military victory in this war. So, how many more of our troops do you want to send to their slaughter? Should we have stayed in Viet Nam and continuted to lose thousands more of our boys, should we still be there?

Face it, AICS, the reason we are losing this war...and we ARE losing, is because it was started for an unjust reason, planned badly (to say the least), our military commanders on the ground were ignored by Rumsfeld and Bush, they were sent in without the proper equipment and it looks like the new surge will also go in without the proper equipment if Bush has his way.

You say we are encouraging the troops to stay in and fight by lying to them? We should keep telling them they are winning and there is great progress when there isn't? Why do you hate our troops so much that you are willing to put them in the line of fire just to appease your political ideologies? Why do you hate our country so much that you would risk depleting our military to the point that we are in danger of our own homeland security just so you can prove that you did the right thing by voting for a President who has no qualms over using our troops as photo-op props. How come you don't see him standing in front of the troops who are all missing their legs and arms? Oh yeah....we just stick them out of the line of the camera's. We don't want the American people to see the damage that Bush has caused.

Keep looking for some news on the Drudge report, maybe someday you will find some...and maybe someday you'll find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Good luck with that.

Mary Ellen said...

Here ya go AICS

From the Washington Post:

Nearly 90 percent of Army National Guard units in the United States are rated “not ready” — largely as a result of shortfalls in billions of dollars’ worth of equipment — jeopardizing their capability to respond to crises at home and abroad, according to a congressional commission that released a preliminary report yesterday on the state of U.S. military reserve forces.

The report found that heavy deployments of the National Guard and reserves since 2001 for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for other anti-terrorism missions have deepened shortages, forced the cobbling together of units and hurt recruiting.

“We can’t sustain the [National Guard and reserves] on the course we’re on,” said Arnold L. Punaro, chairman of the 13-member Commission on the National Guard and Reserves, established by Congress in 2005.


This is what happens when you have a President who has no respect for the military. Feeling safer now?

All_I_Can_Stands said...

ME,

One more and I will leave you with the last word, since we live in alternate realities.

You say we are losing. What is your definition of losing? Are we losing in Afganistan? Are we losing in Kosovo? Are we losing in Germany and Japan since we still have troops there? It seems your definition is that we have taken casualties. If that is the case then we have lost every war we fought in.

As for facts and quotes. No I don't take anonymous quotes very seriously. My guess is that you do as long as they say what you want.

You must not go to Drudge much. Over 99% of Drudge is links to other news sights. You picture it like it is Drudge doing all the writing.

LASunsett said...

ME,

//What I don't understand is how the two of you can ignore facts.//

Nobody is ignoring the fact that there are problems, deep problems, in what we are doing. I am not. But the difference between us rests with how to resolve the issues. There is nothing wrong with keeping the pressure on Bush or anyone else for that matter. All politicians must be held accountable. But to keep beating a dead horse about why we went to war, is ludicrous. It's too late for that.

Add to that the call to pull out immediately and you invite a recipe for utter disaster. By continually harping on things that cannot be changed now and not focusing on the here and now (as well as the future), we get nowhere. That's a fundamental difference between you and me.

History will bear out Bush's legacy, it's not important now. I personally do not care if he remembered well or not. I do care about how to resolve this mess. The question is, how do we resolve the mess we are in? It is not how we got there. How we got there will not resolve this mess. If all you do is accuse, accuse, accuse, about how e got there, then nothing can be devoted to solving the problem.

"See what George Bush did here" or "see how he lies and is incompetent" does not build a damned thing, it tears down. And if you think that if there is a Dem in the Oval Office this thing would be magically better, then you must think there is a magic wand somewhere, and there isn't.

That's what I hear from the left. That's why I have such a distaste for them, politically. Many are good people, you are certainly one of them. I have many friends that argue as you do, they are very dear friends, but we just disagree on this kind of thing. (That's one reason I can tolerate passionate debate, without getting angry or nasty. I am used to it and can separate politics from other aspects of life) ;)

Mary Ellen said...

History will bear out Bush's legacy, it's not important now. I personally do not care if he remembered well or not. I do care about how to resolve this mess. The question is, how do we resolve the mess we are in? It is not how we got there. How we got there will not resolve this mess. If all you do is accuse, accuse, accuse, about how e got there, then nothing can be devoted to solving the problem.

I'm could give a rats ass about Bush's legacy. I already know it will be written that he is the worst president in the history of the US. The reason we have to care about HOW we got in this mess is because Bush CONTINUES to lead with incompetence and is getting us into MORE messes! His incompetency, his ignorance of history, and his arrogance is what is making matters in Iraq worse by the day. Do you actually think it is possible to solve a problem when our own President won't admit there IS a problem? It isn't a matter of accusing...it's a matter of pointing out that Bush has no morals, he cares only about politics and party and not about our country or our troops. That isn't accusing, that is just pointing out that we cannot continue to follow the lead of a man who has no moral compass. The fact that he lies and covers up everything he does, should ring a few bells in your collective heads that this man cannot be trusted to lead our country or make life and death decisions. You can't sweep his past under the rug and shrug your shoulders and say "now what?"

It's also disingenuous to point your fingers at the Democrats and say we aren't doing enough to fix the mess that Bush made. If there were a Democrat in the office, at least we would have a chance to work out a solution to this quagmire Bush got us into. Instead, the Democrats are pushed back at every turn. The Republicans did everything they could to stop any discussion or debate on the war in Congress. Instead of listening to suggestions, they knock down everything Democrats say, just because it is coming from the Democratic party. In fact, it's the Generals and Commanders on the ground who have agreed with the Democrats, and although Bush claims he will listen to them, he doesn't. If they disagree with them, they are sent away and replaced with someone who will agree with him.

You find it distasteful when Democrats "accuse accuse accuse"? You want Democrats to "build" on something? GIVE ME A FRIGGIN' BREAK! How many times do YOU guys bring up Clinton? Every time Bush screws up, the Republican mantra is, "But Clinton lied about an affair with Monica!" Big F#@#ing deal! He didn't send troops into a war unequipped. He didn't give out tax breaks to the rich in the middle of a war (something that was never done in the history of the US) which brought us into one of the biggest deficits in the history of the US. I can go on and on.

Another reason that we have to continually bring up Bush's stupidity and bad decisions is because he KEEPS MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! Again, he is sending our troops into Iraq for this surge of his, without the proper equipment, and without the necessary training. They are actually cutting down the training time for the new troops so they could get them there faster. Maybe if you guys would actually realize this, instead of trying to sweep all his lies and mistakes under the rug, we can actually get our guys home in one piece. Or, maybe we can actually come up with a bi-partisan plan that will end this war. That won't happen, though, because the Republicans want to stay the course...right off a cliff.

LASunsett said...

ME

//I already know it will be written that he is the worst president in the history of the US. //

Do you? You cannot even get me the correct lottery numbers so I can retire early and take my kids to Europe, while there still is a Europe. ;)

//It's also disingenuous to point your fingers at the Democrats and say we aren't doing enough to fix the mess that Bush made. If there were a Democrat in the office, at least we would have a chance to work out a solution to this quagmire Bush got us into.//

There a pie in the sky. (sung to the tune of There's A Tear In My Beer)

Get real ME, David Obey is trying to do something, but your compadres on the left, feel the need to sabotage it, as they proved in the video. (Remeber the video?) How can you expect me to believe that they have all of the answers here?

Greg said...

I couldn't understand why CNN was portraying Obey so poorly. I saw the "teaser" of the news story - something like "Congressmen Loses Temper on Camera." They made it sound like I was about to see some guy really go crazy and say something stupid. Then I watched the video. Then I watched it again. And again. And I don't see him lose his temper. I don't get why he was forced to apologize. Didn't seem to me like he did anything wrong.