Sunday, March 02, 2008

Venezuela, Ecuador Threaten Columbia With War

The AP is reporting this story.

President Hugo Chavez ordered tanks and thousands of troops on Sunday to the border with Colombia, accusing it of pushing South America to the brink of war by killing a top rebel leader on Ecuadorean soil.

Ecuador's President Rafael Correa also ordered troops to the Colombian border, saying "Ecuadorean territory has been outraged and bombed by an air attack and the later incursion of (Colombian) troops."

On Saturday, Colombian security forces killed senior rebel leader Raul Reyes and 16 other Colombian guerrillas at a camp across the border in Ecuador.


Who among us can say we are truly surprised here?

The situation in Venezuela must getting tough, since socialism has hit town. It doesn't sound like it's doing the job by itself, we need a war to whip up the masses. Chavez wants and needs a war to rally his country, out of the malaise condition brought on by crappy economics. But that's not the only objective, there are more.

One of the secondary gains that could be achieved by Ecuador and Venezuela ganging up on Colombia is a corridor connecting the two. If that happens, Chavez stands to be more of a thorn, than Castro ever was. Castro was confined more because he was surrounded by water and much closer to the United States.

Despite the fact that Venezuela wasn't attacked by Colombia, he gets a chance to flex his muscles toward the U.S. and the rest of the world. Once an attention seeker, always an attention seeker.

At the same time, Hugo gets the opportunity to extend his influence over the northern-most portion of South America (SA), in the area that is adjacent to Central America (CA). Panama will be next.

It's not just Chavez and Correa wanting to turn SA and CA into a bloc of socialist establishments either. Evo Morales, President of Bolivia and the Shining Path of Peru would love nothing more than to create a united front against the imperialist George Bush, better known in some circles as el diablo.

The funny thing will be to see how much seriousness is given to this bad actor. How deep will this story be buried and what will be said about their hero? Let's see what Cindy Sheehan and Harry Belafonte have to say about this? I am also betting that Obama will call for talks with Chavez, one to one talks.

Boy, I can't to wait to hear the crickets chirping over this one.

14 comments:

Mustang said...

"When the people are grumbling, start a war." ~~ Machiavelli

Anonymous said...

Wow, some political centrist you are. Look I'm not a socialist, communist or a leftist, but I know politics and I actually read history. Columbia has been in the midst of a civil war for a few decades now and although I don't agree with their methods I can't support the political oppression that columbians have been going through. I hope you're not claiming objectivity, just because you claim no political position you can still be a right wing person. How did the America respond to attacks on their soil? Can you really judge Ecuador for doing the same. Everyone supports their political allies, why should Venezuela be any different? Just think about NATO and NAFTA and all the other stupid wars that they get all the member countries involved in. I'm a little tired of people commenting on Latin America without actually looking at the history. Well you can always be hypocrites just invade Latin America like you did in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s why should this decade be any different? Just goes to show that anyone can write a blogg, you don't even have to know anything about the subject and you can claim to be an objective centrist.

LASunsett said...

Anonymous,

//How did the America respond to attacks on their soil? Can you really judge Ecuador for doing the same. //

If you look at the attack in question, you will plainly see that Colombian forces attacked rebel forces that had been attacking targets inside Colombia. Colombian forces did not attack Ecuadorian forces or targets. They did not attack Venezuela.

Colombian authorities told Ecuadorian authorities what was happening, they had no problem with it until Chavez stuck his nose in the whole affair.

So, where you get this idea that my criticism is not justified, is way beyond me.

//Well you can always be hypocrites just invade Latin America like you did in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s why should this decade be any different?//

Look back in this post and show me where I said anything like that. I don't mind you criticizing my essay, but try to stay with the essay. And above all you should avoid trying to extrapolating any kind of hidden message, especially when there isn't one there.

//Just goes to show that anyone can write a blogg, you don't even have to know anything about the subject and you can claim to be an objective centrist.//

Where's your blog? If you want to be a such a smart commentator, you are welcome to start your own and say whatever you want about whoever you want. What you don't have the right to do here, is come here with an arrogant attitude and use this site as a medium to show your hostility and ultimate lack of knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous...errr Communist,
That was the most ignorant post I have read in quite some time. You portend to know your politics yet you compare a military v. miltary strike between forces that have been fighting for about four decades, with 9-11?!...a sucker punch aimed at innocent citizens.....wow!
I certainly hope you are not an American or even in America for that matter, for you are the reason our society has decay. If America is so bad and evil, what the hell are you doing here? Oh I know, it is because you know deep down that a world without the U.S. is a very impoverished and ugly place.
Maybe those in SA will remember that next time they have a catastrophic currency crisis and come to our doorstep with their hands out..

Anonymous said...

Looks like this a blogg is for fundamentalist right wing Conservatives. If you read international sources (not just American ones) they don't say anything about Columbia notifying Ecuador (don't know where you got your info. maybe it was fox news). In fact all the sources I've consulted those that go beyond North America, show that Ecuador was not consulted. Regardless of who they were targeting, it is a violation of a nation's sovereignty. If America was attacked I would and I know you would hold the same attitude. Terrorism on anyone's soil should not be tolerated, too bad you don't feel the same way, but it's a lot different when it's your country isn't it. Anyway, I guess I will stick to posting in an actual objective CENTRIST forum, your not fooling anyone by calling yourself a centrist who holds a balanced viewpoint, while spewing right conservative pseudo-intellectual arguments. If you don't want people to give you an alternative perspective and have people like the brown noser who called me a Communist, don't worry I won't bother posting in your open "forum." I guess we haven't gotten past the McCarthyist rhetoric where if you are not with us--you're obviously a communist. So I'll leave you to your "blogg," I won't waste anymore time with people who only want to discuss the matter divisively, that goes for extreme leftist and right wing people who are more concerned with defending their ideology than discussing issues objectively.

LASunsett said...

//Looks like this a blogg is for fundamentalist right wing Conservatives.//

So, let me get this straight. Because you don't agree with my view on this issue, this is a right wing fundamentalist blog. Does that pretty much sum it up?

//If you read international sources (not just American ones) they don't say anything about Columbia notifying Ecuador (don't know where you got your info. maybe it was fox news).//

I heard it on CNN International. Early reports had Uribe as having being notified. I hardly call CNN a right wing source.

//If America was attacked I would and I know you would hold the same attitude.//

If Americans were harboring terrorists that crossed over into Canada and conducting insurgency style attacks while the Americans did nothing, you call for the bases inside America to be attacked. So don't give us all this moral high ground crap. Turkey has done it to Iraq and has every right to do so, in my view, for the security of their country and the people that live in it.

//Anyway, I guess I will stick to posting in an actual objective CENTRIST forum, your not fooling anyone by calling yourself a centrist who holds a balanced viewpoint, while spewing right conservative pseudo-intellectual arguments.//

When I first started this blog three years ago, I defined and outlined what kind of centrist I am and how I arrive at my conclusions.

I belong to no party. I am right of center on national security and economics, and I am left of center on many social issues. But if you were a regular reader that didn't just blow in on a whim with a disagreement, if you had taken the time to research my postings more (and not assume you know what I am based on two or three posts), you'd know this.

I have three years of material here and you pass judgment on these posts alone. You are not the first to come here with that kind of attitude and performance, and I seriously doubt you will be the last. The others that have come here in the past have now all gone, because they cannot use this blog to say rude things to people that they would never say to their faces.

Like I said earlier, if you want to act like this, start your own blog. Don't come here with some smug, nasty, and crass attitude and expect to be accepted as an intellectual, because intellectuals do not act like you have here. Based on your discourse, you give the distinct impression that you have some maturing to do.

If you don't want to come back, suit yourself. I don't give a damn what you do. But if you do, you are welcome, as long as you lose the attitude and leave the personal nastiness out of your arguments. People that come here are probably much older and wiser than you and you will not be able to contend with them, with this style of debating.

I have been around the world, I have lived in Europe, and all across this continent. As have many who come here. We have little patience for people that come here with some chip on their shoulder, for no good reason. An we have even less patience for immature behavior.

Mustang said...

LA, I’m not sure what you did to deserve this troll. Possibly, the sins of your youth have caught up with you. Apparently, this individual employs vitriol as a substitute for intelligence; there are no factually supported propositions or elaborations. In my view, this is what happens when parents forego their responsibility to supervise adolescent use of computers.

LASunsett said...

//I’m not sure what you did to deserve this troll. Possibly, the sins of your youth have caught up with you.//

Yes, I am still paying for that vote for Carter, even up until this very day.

Anonymous said...

You know what? This is ALL crap. All this junk about how america is "perfect". psh. We have problems just like any other country. War is NOT the solution. If people were civilized and normal, then we would be kind and try to work thing out in what we call PEACE. It's a great thing and if we just tried, maybe it would work. But no. We have to be jerk faces and take out our anger on other people. Who invented killing. That in itself was a terrible invention. The guy who crossed the border did wrong. I suppose we had the right to kill him but still, its stupid and downrite annoying. Cause now Columbia is all pissed that they killed someone on their "property" with no permission. Now, we have to go put our big noses in their business instead of letting them figure it out themselves. Just like what we did in Iraq. Now we have a HUGE problem there and Bush is blaming it on them. How stupid is that when it was Bush's fault anyway. That's where Americans have the problem. We can NEVER accept the blame. Why don't we just help and not tear apart the earth that was put here for us to ENJOY AND TAKE CARE OF. Do you seriously think we're doing that successfully? We're polluting and killing our neighbor. Why don't we all try to be nice and make peace with the other countries instead of being stuck up brats. Think about it. And to you, LA, you need to be open to new opinions instead of allways being stuck up bout yourself. You do that and I'll help work on the rest.

Mustang said...

LA:

As your history expert, I would like you to recall a few salient facts in the not too distant past. We’ll begin with the fact that a somewhat isolationist United States agreed to support French and British forces in Europe as early as 1915 when Germany sank a civilian passenger ship. It took an additional two years to “make ready” for the deployment of combat forces, and another ten months from the time of Pershing’s arrival in France as Commanding General, American Expeditionary Forces to have what he needed in place in order to carry out his mission.

At the time of Japan’s attack on the United States in December 1941, the United States could not field a sustainable army until late 1942; the invasion of Guadalcanal in August 1942 nearly turned out a disaster, as the 1st Marine Division ran low on ammunition, food, and medical supplies because the Navy could not sustain these forward-deployed troops.

Between 1945 and 1950, Harry S. Truman so gutted the U. S. military that our soldiers in South Korea were untrained and did not have the weapons needed to hold back the N. Korean onslaught in June 1950; the North Koreans came close to pushing US forces completely off the Korean Peninsula. One single light brigade of US Marines prevented a NK route — a brigade that consisted of one regiment with two battalions each, and battalions consisting of only two rifle companies each.

Now some who visit here may simply be young and understandably idealistic. We might argue that they are merely the product of the American education system, which means simple minded. They may not recall the attack by terrorists on 11 September 2001, or that Muslim extremists attacked the World Trade Center in 1993, destroyed two embassies, two barracks full of U. S. military personnel, or that a U. S. Navy warship was attacked and severely damaged.

There is not a single instance in world history where a people “gave love a chance” and lived long enough to tell the glorious story. One of my favorite quotes originates with Air Marshal Sir John Slessor, who in 1954 observed, “It is customary in democratic countries to deplore expenditures on armaments as conflicting with the requirements of social services. There is a tendency to forget the most important social service a government can do for its people is to keep them alive and free.”

Mr. Anon may encourage you to shift blame on the United States, but I would argue instead that nothing is quite as pathetic as “a little education.” I doubt if this weenie ever put himself in “harms way” for any reason. Of course, that’s just my opinion because he may not even have one.

Semper Fi

Anonymous said...

-M
After reading the important comments I read, I want to correct something. Ecuador was not notified on Colombia entering and bombing to kill the guerillas. If Ecuador was notified there wouldn't be this problem. Make sense now, how would a country like someone coming in and bombing a town in their own country with not being notified?

Anonymous said...

M-
Now for Hugo Chavez butting his head in is quite ignorant. Hugo is friends with Rafael Correa which is unfortunate for Ecuador, Hugo is the devil, and that is why Hugo is putting his nose in the business. So, Colombia coming into Ecuador causing all this mess is the fault of Columbia. They didn't apologize and lied to the U.S. saying that Ecuador was helping the guerrillas hide. This is so made up, why would Ecuador help the guerrillas? Colombia has so many problems and Ecuador doesn't want to be a part of it, let alone help them worsen by helping evil guerillas. News televised in its own country isn't all true, let alone broadcasting what news is going on in another country for another country.
Now, the U.S. was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001, the U.S. did something about it. Good for them, but Ecuador was attacked and didn't know what to do. They don't want war, so what is up with saying Ecuador and Venezuela want war with Colombia. Maybe Hugo wants war and that is why he is butting his nose in. Well look at Colombia and Venezuela as the problem, but Ecuador hasn't done anything wrong.

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